Although several notable terrorist acts occurred in the
United States before 2001, no other national event has affected our cultural
awareness of terrorism in such a way as the destruction of the Twin Towers and
concurrent plane hijackings on Sept 11. As Dec 7, 1941 in Roosevelt’s time, we
all know this infamous date. More significantly, Sept 11 has brought about cultural
shifts and changes in U.S. legal conduct (e.g. the Patriot Act, extraordinary
rendition, Guantanamo prison, “enhanced interrogation”). It has been mentioned
in this class that there are some similarities between witchcraft trials of the
early modern period and terrorism trials today. What do you think? Are there
similarities? What are some of the essential differences? Would it be fair to
compare cultural attitudes towards terrorists today to cultural attitudes
towards witches during the Renaissance? Perhaps you have already thought of
some important questions to share.
We know there are highly political issues embedded in this
topic, and ask that you all make as much use of real data and other source
materials as you can. Disagreement, to be expected, is inherent to debate, and
it can always be approached in a respectful manner. This is an excellent
opportunity to set aside differences and come together in meaningful discourse
on an important cultural issue.
The TAs
The TAs
Witches of the past, like terrorist today, were known to inflict harm (in this case maleficium) on people/people's property. Terrorism and maleficium alike, instill utter fear in innocent people, and as a result, there is resistance to stop it. Like we learned in class today, utilizing torture tactics, higher officials were able to get leads on who/where other witches might be. Today, our government agencies employ secret intelligence to find more and more terrorists through the underground networking.
ReplyDeleteCopy and past this link into your URL if you'd like, but essentially the self proclaimed mastermind of the terrorist attacks on September 11th has begun to sit in trial at Guantanamo Bay just three days ago (May 5th). (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/05/nation/la-na-terror-trial-20120506)
The mastermind is not cooperating with the flow of the trial, mostly through silent protest. Apparently this is his way of demonstrating that America has no control over him. This is similar to witch trials, in which they very rarely agreed to repent, or acknowledge that society is right, and they have wronged. Thanks!
DAVID STENGER
I agree with David in the fact that there are similarities between how terrorism and witchcraft make people very paranoid in their approach to it. Im not saying that the paranoia isn't justified, but it is very similar. Women were largely targets of the witchcraft era, but now with terms such as racial profiling, many muslims are affected by suspicions of terrorism. These assumptions from both sides are very unfair, and they show a decline in intellectual approaches towards terrorism/witchcraft. Nowadays we look at witchcraft and laugh, and even though their are terrorists in the world, we will eventually see how little sense racial profiling makes.David makes a strong point linking the two movements. There are secret agents looking for terrorists, just like the middle ages had people look for suspicions of witchcraft.
DeleteI think Michael makes a good point about about how we assume what people are based on their appearance. It is very stereotypical, and I never thought of witchcraft as that. Unfortunately it seems this trend is a constant and hasn't gone away but just changed forms; from accusing people of witchcraft to assuming people are terrorists with just one look. The punishments for being a witch seem more cruel, but the concepts are the same.
DeleteAlso I agree with David's statement about how both witchcraft and terrorism instill fear in others which in turn causes resistance to stop it. Both had a side affect of paranoia and changed how people thought. They also had a major affect on history and people's beliefs. Overall, I would say witchcraft and terrorism have a descent amount of things in common.
-Rachel Skowron
I agree with a lot David has to say about this matter. One thing that is different between witches and terrorists today though, is that often times witches were accused of things that they did not do. People accused them of inflicting harm, but most of the time they were in fact innocent. In addition terrorists often try to inflict harm on as many people as possible, whereas witches typically "harm" only a few individuals.
DeleteThe torture techniques used today on terrorists are similar to the ones used during the witch trials. In fact, as mention in class, is still used today. In general these torture tactics have a similar effect, people will admit to things that they didn't necessarily do to escape excruciating pain.
What David posted about the mastermind of the terrorist attacks on September 11th is very interesting. It is indeed very similar to the witch trials where people rarely agree to repent for their own purpose and dignity.
I agree with David. There is a close parallel between the witch trials of old and the terrorist hunts of today. Witches were feared by many people, including members of several different religions. Today governments and citizens of the world fear terrorists and terrorism. It was imperative that the witches be found and questioned about other witches. Because most accused of being witches weren't actually witches, they had nothing to confess, and as we know, the use of torture would lead people to confess to acts, events, accusations, etc. that were not true. Today, we have a much better system. Witchcraft is not like terrorism in the fact that intelligence can lead us to determine who is at fault for terrorist acts, and who is a terrorist. I beleive the use of torture is much more effective, and is used for better reason today than they were during the times of the witch trials.
DeleteI forgot to leave my name. ^ Ethan Zucal.
DeleteThere are very clear parallels between the cultural attitudes of citizens towards witches hundreds of years ago, and of terrorists today. In both cases, the fear of the unknown can cause a level of hype and even hysteria among people. In the past, the idea of witches potentially being able to cause harm to anyone at any time was reason for great suspicion of anyone who acted differently than “normal.” Paranoia made people afraid of what everyone else was capable of. The same can be seen today, as after the 9/11 attacks, many people became suspicious and even afraid of Muslim people as a whole. Suddenly innocent people became victims of Islamophobia-- stereotyping people as terrorists simply because of their ethnicity. Over the past decade everything from foreign last names to traditional Muslim clothing has become a reason to potentially suspect that person of terrorist associations. The French Senate has even gone as far as to ban burkas (a full body cloak worn by some Muslim women) from being worn in public. Even after hundreds of years of working to improve our justice system, the public is still quite able to fall victim to hysteria. --Taylor Piersante
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statements about innocent Muslims being treated as if they were terrorist just because their religion or the way they dressed. There are many similarities to the way muslims were treated after the attacks in 2001 and the witch hunts of the early days, and most of the time it was based simply on people being afraid of other people who were different in some way. People tend to see the absolute worst in people when fear is involved and logical thinking goes out the door. This kind of thinking often leads to stereotyping and profiling people by their race or appearance and I believe that this was the case with witches in the past and muslims in more recent times.
DeleteRyan Siggins
I agree with Ryan. Too often it is easier to see the worst in people than the best and stereotypes formed based on the actions of only a few individuals, not entire groups of people of the same race or religion. During the witch trails, William Perkins did leave open the idea of white magic as being different from maleficium. There is more than one kind of magic, not all bad, and the same applies for people in religion, everyone is different. It may not be terrorism, but the same ideas of hunting the people who are different also occured during the Cold War with the Communist hunts. If you were just a little different politically, you were black listed as a communist and had your rights limited, even if you weren't a communist. How little humans learn from history. No wonder we repeat it so frequently.
DeleteVictoria Penno
These are great posts, guys. Right on. Looking back on the witch trials, it seems absurd and irrational what took place. Many people were accused of witchcraft on an unjustifiable basis. Like has been mentioned, out of fear and shared hysteria. Humans inflicting pain, and even death, on other humans. Most accusations on "witches" simply came from associations to the greater culture (witchcraft) and at times questionable behavior -- not always valid and factual. The same is happening today with the previously mentioned racial profiling. People (mostly white and citizens of the U.S.) are reflecting their fear and hatred towards the Muslim people all because of one tragic incident created by a small group of the same culture. Will we also look back on this in the future and feel disgusted by this mindset and human actions? This sort of finger pointing and segregation is nothing new, humans are prejudiced against many varied cultures, skin colors, religions, etc. We've strayed so far from the fact that we are all connected and only focus on our differences.
DeleteAdriana Matusiewicz
A way they are similar is that people are afraid. Back then, people were afraid of witches and witchcraft. Today, people are afraid of terrorists and terrorist attacks. Because we are afraid, that drives us to take any means necessary to protect ourselves and the people around us. Like it was said in class today, there have been exceptions made to the law in how they handle terrorism just like back in the day with witches. Both people from back then and now judge people on how they look. If they look a certain way, then they must be a witch or a terrorist. A difference now is that even though we still judge on looks, we need more evidence to convict the person. We just don't end up killing that person like how they would burn the 'guilty' witches back then.
ReplyDelete-Amanda Phillips
I agree with Amanda's point, fear drives people to do many things such as taking as many safety precautions as possible in order to keep safe. With the current prejudice against Muslims (or with witches long ago), they are perceived as a terrorist and people are afraid of them, jumping to conclusions. Many witch trials were based upon the fact that they were women, even if they had little evidence. Nowadays we do need real evidence to convict terrorist, however, the prejudice still stands purely based on looks.
Delete-Jessica Petrus
It's also very religiously based. I can't count the amount of times someone has ranted to me about the so called Muslim threat claiming that if we will soon be ruled by Sharia law. Religious fever has caused quite a lot of harm when that really doesn't match up to reality. Many people can't seem to imagine that someone who doesn't consider themselves a Christian have anything to add to the country. Terrorism and with trials seem to both come down to vilifying anyone who believes differently from what is considered "normal".
Delete-Catherine Rice
DeleteI agree that fear is the major driving point in both scenarios as pointed out by those before me. Both situations are examples of authority abusing its power with fear tactics. It is a simple case of letting fear control us rather than controlling our fear. When there are situations that cause us to be fearful it is vital that logical thinking is carried out rather than a panic infused hunt.
Delete-Joshua Renencker-
It is easy to see the simularities between the ways accused terrorist are treated today and the ways accused witches were treated centuries ago. In both instances, sterotypes were used by society to rationalize the persecution of the accused. After the attacks that took place on September 11th, many islamic people were treated cruely simply becuase of thier ethnicity. Similarly, witches were singled out for their appearance, as was the case with Elizabeth Sawyer. Without commiting any true criminal acts, Elizabeth was accused and eventually found guilty of witchcraft because of her mole and body type. Sterotypes like these have existed in society for hundreds of years as a way to quickly and unfairly scapegoat a segment of society so that the other parts of society are overlooked.
ReplyDelete-Samantha Stavig
There may be some similarities in the way in witch we see people from the middle east like people saw other accused of witch craft. however I feel that there is a big difference in the way in which we but them on trial and in which we accuse them and imprison them. For the most part the witches in the past did not harm people and some even tried to help others. If they did do harm then their punishment could have been just. However the terrorists today are trying to harm others, even people that are completely innocent so their situation is completely different. We are not just trying to find peple to blame and scare people into our ways or to make them believe in the ways of the US like the church did in the past. Instead we are stopping men who are trying to do horrible things to other people.
ReplyDeleteOne main difference I see in these two cases is often time the witches that were put on trial has actually not done anything wrong. They didn't hurt or kill anyone, but terrorist of the 9/11 attacks killed thousands of innocent people. That being said, i believe the main difference is that in todays time it was a reaction to innocent people being killed by terrorist while the witch's that were put on trial were often put their simply because suspicion. This seems that it is more because people in the past being less tolerate of people who are different and assuming the worst. I also understand that many innocent people are still affected today by these types of attitudes but after many innocent people were killed the reason seems much different to me.
ReplyDeleteRyan Siggins
I very much disagree with this post. Although I do not deny that the 911 terrorists killed thousands of people, many people that are hunted as terrorists are simply people with different views. Bush spent 1.8 billion dollars every week on the Iraq war and never found weapons of mass destruction. Thousands of innocent people have died by the hands of US and UN troops. Just like the witchcraft trials where a few "real" witches caused the death of many innocent people, the 911 attacks caused the army to be allowed to kill any Arab they wanted to because they all terrorists apparently. Also to your point that people were "less tolerant back then", there have been dozens of cases where people in Arab clothes have been profiled for wearing their traditional garb in airports and malls etc. overall this society is LESS tolerant as now we have massive news corporations that make millions of dollars from reporting on the wars and making people of different ethnicity's look evil.
DeleteYessam, I disagree with your statement that people are less tolerant today than they previously were. The rationale for that viewpoint, that the widespread media creating false views of ethnic groups, typically only works on those that are either not very bright or already hold that viewpoint. Most individuals are either smart enough to not believe everything they hear or are politically intelligent enough to understand when they are hearing a story that is a bunch of crap. In our society of having 24 hour news networks the airwaves have been saturated with this crap since not enough happens in the world that we need 24 hours of news a day. i would like to claim that we as a society are slightly more tolerant than we used to be due to the increased information. That increase of information also comes with an increase of the crap that allows the stupid bigots to feed their bigotry.
Delete-Max Moreland
I would support Yessam's comment not by comparing current attitudes towards Muslims to those towards witches in the Early Modern period, but thinking about how different these attitudes were before 9/11 itself. We are certainly less tolerant of Muslims now than we were before 9/11, and negative portrayals of Arabs and Muslims do proliferate in the news media. Perhaps a comparison could be made between changes changes in cultural attitudes toward Muslims in the U.S. since, say 1990, and the later Middle Ages?
DeleteFirst off the men and women who volunteered for service overseas via the U.N. or the N.A.T.O coalition can hardly be declared as innocent lives. It sounds harsh but they knew the consequences of joining the ranks of the military prior to enlisting. Secondly, WMD is an extremely vague term, and in light of its usage within these replies, the stockpiles of thousands of chemical and biological weapons that the U.S. found within Iraq can be "WMDs". Thirdly, the "media" covers terrorism exactly how it should be covered, as a vile, hateful, blatantly evil act of murder against innocent people. I can see how most of you would view the media as "negative" towards Muslims however the acts of terrorism within the past few decades has been overtly committed by individuals of the Islamic faith. Wheres the journalistic integrity (if it exists) in lying to the American and global public by saying its not?
DeleteNow on to class, there are many parallels between the interrogation of alleged suspects of certain crimes from the middle ages on to today. Are methods more gruesome today? No. Are individuals then and now accused of crimes socially stigma-ed and interned without probable cause? Yes. However it should be noted that the unfortunate victims of unjust persecution of witchcraft were not given the rights of the accused as people are today. Some parallels are clear and others are a bit of a stretch. What has to be clear is that the accused in the holy-roman empire and western Europe had it much worse than the accused today; and to say that the "accused" today have it worse than the "witches" of old is lunacy.
-William White
yessam->greg massey
DeleteOne essential difference between terrorism and witchcraft is that the act of terrorism is much worse than performing witchcraft, terrorism being much more destructive. While witches may have rarely performed magic in order to harm people, terrorism is always is destructive- killing people in mass quantities. Other than on the scale that they harmed people, these two are very much alike. In many cases, people accused of witchcraft and of terrorism are wrongly accused. During the Renaissance, if you were an older female and single you had a great chance that someone would accuse you of being a witch. In the present, if you are of color, and a younger male you are a target of being persecuted for your race, even if you are harmless. I think in some ways it has to do with fear of what the people could do, which causes unnecessary hype.
ReplyDelete-Victoria McKinley
-Victoria
DeleteI think on top of fear of what these people could do I think a lot of the fear comes from ignorance. People don't understand "witchcraft" or what they thought to be witchcraft and what one does not know is scary. Very scary. Especially in the Renaissance era when the Bible nor the priests could "explain" witchcraft to others.
-Ashleigh Mussulin
I agree with Vicky and Ashleigh. It's important to point at that perhaps to a village person from Medieval western Europe, the threat of witchcraft was as frightening to them as terrorism is today to us. After all, they believed that witches were capable or sinking ships and causing deaths, so to them, apprehending as many witches as possible was important as apprehending terrorists today. I think fear of the unknown or the unfamiliar caused a hysteria in both cases. But I would like to think that now, we have a higher level of a fair trial and a higher use of logic to suppress the fears and hysteria of the inquisitor.
Delete- Petra Mourany (mourany.4)
I think it would be fair to compare the cultural attitudes between witchcraft and terrisim now because while the acts of the accused are much different... Wanting to help it rain and destroying buildings and other human beings are on complete different ends of the "bad" spectrum... but Sadly the outcomes are the same. The differences are that the people being accused of witchcraft were not USUALLY harming others terriorists however are. Honestly the biggest difference is that one is harming people in the most awful way (terrorists) and "witches" are not harming anyone. The thing that I wonder the most is how would the accusers of the renasance era treat the terrorists. I honestly feel that they would act less harshly on the terrorists especially if the terrorists were claiming it was done in the name of God. Which in my mind is disgusting... Does anyone else agree with this???
ReplyDelete-Ashleigh Mussulin
I think a similarity is that after september 11th, the middle eastern and muslim population was targeted in the United States, maybe not directly but indirectly. A similar thing happened with the witch hunts because a majority of the people accused were single women. An essential difference is that the witch hunts took t to another level by executing the accused based mostly on stereotypes. I wouldn't say it would be fair to compare cultural attitudes suring the witch hunts to culural attitudes about terrorism because the american population fears terrorism but it is not as present in our lives as I think whitch craft was to the people of the renaissance.
Delete-Emily Reinhart
I think witchcraft trials and terrorism trails are similar in the idea that they both interrogate the potential criminal (witch or terrorist) and have used torture to get the criminal to confess to crimes. However, I think there is a major difference in the fact that witches were being accused of things that they didn't do and terrorists are often being accused of things they actually did. 9-11 was obviously done by terrorists (or someone else if you believe in the conspiracies). A physical person(s) is(are) responsible for the deaths of the people on 9-11, where on the other hand witches were often being accused of deaths of people that were most likely natural deaths not caused by any other person. I think the witchcraft trials were more unjust and harsh than any terrorism trail because at least the terrorists are being interrogated about acts that were performed by a person and not being accused of some natural phenomena that we don't understand and have no explanation for.
ReplyDeleteDeanna Sickafoose
While I agree with you that terrorist are being accused of crimes that are obviously done by humans and have actual proof for the crimes done there are still similarities between the two. Many innocent people are also affected by the terrorist hunts in a similar fashion to witch hunts. Today we profile Middle Eastern people as terrorist even though very few actually have done anything criminal. In that way the two hunts relate through unfair profiling. Another way they relate is that each group of people, Middle Eastern people as terrorists and women for witches, are also profiled unnecessarily. Both parties are used as scapegoats for crimes the hunts even though statistically neither group that is profiled are more likely to be terrorists or witches than any other group of people.
Delete-Maxel Moreland
I feel there is no doubt some parallel between witchcraft and terrorism. In both cases barbaric methods are utilized in order to obtain answers, and in more cases than not, confessions. I do feel, and it may be naive and a little modern day ignorance, however that the terrorist trials are based more or substantial evidence rather than the witchcraft trials. The similarities between the two are definitely there though.
ReplyDelete-Michael Schmidt
ReplyDeletePerhaps it is easy to think of all witches as innocent since, to us, it seems such a frivolous. Let us consider the reverse: Is it okay to view all terrorist suspects as guilty? While many have raised concern about racial profiling, no one on either blog has raised concern about the potential innocence of detained suspects (so I thought I might bring it up myself). Why does the U.S. use torture on suspected terrorists when we know from our history (i.e. the witchcraft trials) that it is so ineffective at uncovering truth, and it allows opportunists such as Matthew Hopkins to wield incredible power over people? Should we be concerned about opening space for a modern Matthew Hopkins? Aren't there better methods for dealing with international criminals than this? These are some of the questions I have, and this class gives us an opportunity to talk about them in a productive way. I would appreciate your opinions if you would like to comment.
ReplyDelete-Michele Fuchs
I think you raise a good point about the potential innocence of detained suspects. This does concern for I can't think of many things that would be worst to face the punishment for something you had no part of. I think that maybe embrace the rather be safe than sorry concept but we have to ask at what price. I think that a reason for using torture is that the government wants to show numbers to the people. We would hope that humanity has evolved past using torture for false confessions but I am not too sure we can claim that. Quite possibly the government wants to put on an illusion of safety and they can do this by saying "x" amount of terrorists confessed and we captured them. When the population feels safe and protected there would be less of a possibility of them resisting and fighting the oppression and power placed by the government. Another possibility is that the government might just feel powerless and turn to torture as their only option. Or quite possibly, the government is positive that someone is a terrorist and will go to whatever lengths possible to get them to confess. I feel like there is space for a modern Matthew Hopkins and it has been filled by many different people. We might not be able to name them, but I am sure there is someone who has taken to this opportunity of torture to quench their desire to wield incredible power over people. As to what other methods there are for dealing with terrorist I am sure there are many and it starts with proper intelligent investigation with data and evidence to support claims.
Delete-Megan Mohler
I think the similarities between the witchcraft trails and the terrorism trials of today seem fairly obvious. They both share the element of using outward appearance to incriminate and also represent fear of the masses towards a minority. But there is a huge difference between witchcraft and terrorism, and that is the level of actual danger. While there were reports of witches causing death or using human sacrifices, it was never on a mass scale and it is debatable how much was actually due to witchcraft. Terrorism on the other hand is an actual threat to humanity and the destruction and loss of lives on September 11th show that. Not only that but there continues to be turmoil within the Middle East leading to death in high numbers. Whereas witchcraft seems to be an issue created by social hierarchies, terrorism is real issues effecting the lives of many people across the globe. In a modern society were religious tolerance is preached as normative, heresy would be considered a nonexistent issue within society. This does lead to another similarity between witchcraft and terrorism, and that is once again there is a religious motivation. The witchcraft trials addressed heresy against the Catholic Church, and ultimately tried to established what is the right thing to believe in and what is Truth(with a capital "T"). Acts of terrorism also posses religious motivation. Once again, it represents a group who see their version of Truth as the only correct one and that there is no room for anybody who doesn't fall in line with their beliefs. As a side note: I want to point out that I do understand that motivation for terrorism is not just religious, and that in many instances religion is used incorrectly as a platform for other motivations like political, religion is just a common underlying element.
ReplyDelete-Megan Mohler
After reading all of these really detailed and insightful views on the relationship between witchcraft trials and terrorism trials I think it that it is really pertinent to note not only the hysteria and paranoia that the accusations and trials create and perpetuate, but also the significance of witchcraft and terrorism trials as the vessels of political control and social regulation. As society moves from period to period, particular events and phenomena define generations and their outlooks. While it is extremely important to note the realities of witchcraft and terrorism as actions, it is equally important to note what society and the individual experience that allow for such unrestricted, mass actions to be taken. What about these trials brings community together while also profoundly tearing them apart? When one examines this question, it doesn't become a question of the actions and their temporal impacts, but a question of an overarching trend and tendency for societies to rally around groups and phenomenon in hopes of creating and identity and exercising a level of control over their own lives.
ReplyDeleteI believe there are many similarities, especially in the “enhanced interrogation” category. I feel that that is just the more accepted word for torture. Although the interrogation techniques today may not be so extreme, certain ones used be the CIA, such as waterboarding, slapping, shaking, and stress positions, are strikingly similar to the forms of torture used during the witchcraft trials of the early modern period. The Department of Defense has also been known to use sleep deprivation, environmental manipulation, controlled fear, yelling, and 20-hour interrogations. Many similar techniques have been discussed in lecture. In class, many of the techniques were said to be unreliable. The pain or fear was too much causing the accused to falsely testify against themselves in order to stop the torture in hopes of survival. The effectiveness and reliability of today’s enhanced interrogation techniques has also been questioned by many. According to The Washington Post, “There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community's use of controversial interrogation techniques in the fight against terrorism, and experts believe some painful and coercive approaches could hinder the ability to get good information, according to a new report from an intelligence advisory group.”
ReplyDelete-Satbir Singh
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ReplyDeleteI do not understand how people can think that extensive torture is an efficient way of gaining information from people. In the witch trials throughout the ages suspected witches were tortured until they confessed of their "sorcery" and repented, or until they got sick of it and hung them for witchcraft. This was not productive. Most of the people that were tortured ended up just confessing that they were witches when they were not. So they were confessing a lie, and in most cases even if they confessed they couldn't be saved from being handed or from being burnt at the stake. In seldom trials, if they repented and confessed then they were not hanged or burnt alive. So in most cases when one was put on trial for witchcraft and questioned, denying all charges of witchcraft, he/she was tortured in some cruel way until the breaking point where they confessed a lie or until they were killed being tortured. I do not really understand how the people of that time did not think, or figure out that all they were doing was provoking people to confess to something that they never did. Or how the court system would not stop interrogating and torturing the accused until they heard what they wanted to hear. But that is a whole other topic to be talked about.
ReplyDeleteWilliam McVeigh
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ReplyDeleteThe witch craft scare, trials, and torture remind of the communist scare in the united states. During the cold war, Americans began turning against people they have known forever for fear that they were spies for communists. It seems during the witch scares, people just turned people in for fear of them being accused of a witch and that is kinda what happened during the cold war. People wanted to blame other people of being spies before they got blamed. You can even see that being happen today with terrorism. Everyone seems to jump the gun to accuse people of being terrorist out of fear just like during the witch trial and the cold war.
ReplyDeleteMaureen McCormick